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Interregional Legislature

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1 Interregional Legislature on Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:24 pm

This topic is for the discussion of the interregional legislature.

I think that we've agreed on the fact that this legislature should be bicameral, and that the lower house should be proportionally representative and the upper should be equally representative. I believe we've agreed to call the lower house the General Assembly, and so far we've called the upper house the Senate.

This is a list of what we have:
--The General Assembly proportionally represents the four regions. Each region's representative count will be a given percentage of the region's population rounded to the nearest odd number (four odd numbers makes an even number, plus the speaker makes an odd to avoid ties).
--The General Assembly proposes laws and initially debates and votes on them. An elected "speaker" is the vote-counter for this; he/she can vote as well. The speaker is responsible for organizing debates and votes in the GA.
--If the president vetoes a bill, it returns to the GA for a second vote to attempt to override the veto.
--The Senate equally represents the four regions; each region will have 4 representatives in the Senate.
--The Senate approves laws after presidential review (or after the GA overrides a veto). Once the Senate passes a bill, it is implemented.
--The vice-president serves as the chairperson for the Senate; he/she will count votes for the Senate, and is permitted to vote. The VP is also responsible for introducing bills to the Senate for debate and/or voting.

As of now, the basic things we need to establish are the following:
--Specific duties of the legislature
--What house has the ability to recall an official
--Vote percentages for each of the duties
--What name we should give the entire legislature

I also propose a small change. We shouldn't call the upper house the Senate; half the nations in the world have something called the Senate, so we should be a little more original. I suggest something like the "Federal Caucus" or the "Chamber of Delegates" or something.

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2 Re: Interregional Legislature on Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:34 pm

Furthermore, here are my suggestions to the topics at hand:
--Duties of the legislature: Enacting new laws, repealing old laws, modifying the interregional constitution when one is written, recalling officials, disbanding or enforcing an order from the president which the defense/intelligence minister protested, and approving another region's request to join the interregional union.
--House given duty for recalling: I suggest the upper house take responsibility for recalling. It requires equal opinion from the regions to disband an official which affects all of them. Similarly, I believe the upper house should deal with orders protested by the defense/intelligence ministers, for the same reasons.
--Vote percentages: I suggest 60% for a new law to pass, 60% for a law to be repealed, 75% for modifying the constitution, 80% to override a veto, 70% to recall an official, >50% to disband or enforce an order, and 90% to approve another region's request to join the interregional union.
--Name for the legislature: I would suggest something like the "Interregional Union Convention," but I'd probably like someone else's idea better. We can debate that part last.

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3 Re: Interregional Legislature on Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:53 am

I don't think that a appointed role should be counting votes for the Senate, perhaps we could have them choose a counter?

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4 Re: Interregional Legislature on Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:10 am

Since there are an even number of Senators/upper house representatives, they can't choose one of themselves to head it. As a result, someone will have to come from outside the upper house; the easiest way to do that would be to allow the VP to appoint.

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5 Re: Interregional Legislature on Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:48 pm

Zwotstyg wrote:Furthermore, here are my suggestions to the topics at hand:
--Duties of the legislature: Enacting new laws, repealing old laws, modifying the interregional constitution when one is written, recalling officials, disbanding or enforcing an order from the president which the defense/intelligence minister protested, and approving another region's request to join the interregional union.
To this, I would add approving another region's request for an alliance or other treaty.

Zwotstyg wrote:--House given duty for recalling: I suggest the upper house take responsibility for recalling. It requires equal opinion from the regions to disband an official which affects all of them. Similarly, I believe the upper house should deal with orders protested by the defense/intelligence ministers, for the same reasons.
Agreed.

Zwotstyg wrote:--Vote percentages: I suggest 60% for a new law to pass, 60% for a law to be repealed, 75% for modifying the constitution, 80% to override a veto, 70% to recall an official, >50% to disband or enforce an order, and 90% to approve another region's request to join the interregional union.
Agreed, except:

- I think the margin for approving/repealing a law should only be 55%.
-A 70% margin for approving a treaty with another region and 80% for an alliance.

Zwotstyg wrote:--Name for the legislature: I would suggest something like the "Interregional Union Convention," but I'd probably like someone else's idea better. We can debate that part last.
How about the "Assembly of the International Union"? Or AIU.

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6 Re: Interregional Legislature on Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:56 pm

@Othelos: Yes, I forgot to add the treaty part to the duties. It was intended to be there.

Second, I'm a little skeptical about lowering the rate for making new laws to just over 50%. We don't want the legislature spewing out laws left and right; I think a law should be a little more well-accepted before it's implemented. I prefer 60%, but I will wait to see what everyone else says.

About the percentage for a treaty, I wrote on the last section that treaties should be taken as laws (because, in effect, they are some sort of agreement to be enforced). As a result, the vote for them would be 60% or whatever we agree on for laws. That was my proposal, anyway. I also think that alliances and war should be considered the same as treaties, because in essence, that's what they are.

About the name, I don't know. I'll wait for everyone else on that as well.

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7 Re: Interregional Legislature on Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:02 pm

How about, we just call the Senate the Senate and call both bodies of legislature the International Union Peoples' Legislature.
I think that the General Assembly should be responsible for recalling an official. Because that way, the Nations opinions on the matter will be better represented. The Senate however, should regulate orders protested by the Defense and Intelligence ministers.
The rate of approval for approving Legislature should be 55%, 75% for amending the Constitution, 75% for overriding a veto, 60% to recall an official and 85% for adding another region.

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8 Re: Interregional Legislature on Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:05 am

Zwotstyg wrote:Since there are an even number of Senators/upper house representatives, they can't choose one of themselves to head it. As a result, someone will have to come from outside the upper house; the easiest way to do that would be to allow the VP to appoint.
Why can't they? If they have a tie, the VP can act as a tiebreaker. That gives him authority and is a lot more democratic.

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9 Re: Interregional Legislature on Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:17 pm

@Zera: I'd rather not call it the Senate, since it's a direct copy from real-life nations. We should use something original.

Also, recalling an official should be done with equal input from each region, so the upper house should handle that. Furthermore, the GA is going to be busy with debates and proposals, neither of which will really clog the upper house. That allows the upper house to take on another job and keeps the GA from being overwhelmed.

Furthermore, as I'd stated, I'm not very supportive of lowering the majority of passing legislation too much. Also, the veto rate has to be higher than the rate to pass an amendment, because that means if an amendment is passed, it can't be vetoed because the majority has already overridden it. If amendments are placed at 75%, then vetoes should be placed at 80%. About recalling an official, we should make the rate higher than 60% so that the legislature doesn't just throw everyone out if it wants. I can agree to a compromise at 65%. On adding another region, I'm skeptical of a decrease, but I can agree to 85% at the lowest.

@Xin Prussia: Because they can't choose one of their own because a tie can arise. That means there needs to be some way of acquiring candidates, which means at least a part of a whole new election, which would take a long time. Also, if the VP isn't the vote counter for the upper house, then the position is worthless; all he would do would be sitting and waiting for a random tie vote to arise to he can break it.

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10 Re: Interregional Legislature on Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:45 pm

Zwotstyg wrote:@Zera: I'd rather not call it the Senate, since it's a direct copy from real-life nations. We should use something original.

Also, recalling an official should be done with equal input from each region, so the upper house should handle that. Furthermore, the GA is going to be busy with debates and proposals, neither of which will really clog the upper house. That allows the upper house to take on another job and keeps the GA from being overwhelmed.

Furthermore, as I'd stated, I'm not very supportive of lowering the majority of passing legislation too much. Also, the veto rate has to be higher than the rate to pass an amendment, because that means if an amendment is passed, it can't be vetoed because the majority has already overridden it. If amendments are placed at 75%, then vetoes should be placed at 80%. About recalling an official, we should make the rate higher than 60% so that the legislature doesn't just throw everyone out if it wants. I can agree to a compromise at 65%. On adding another region, I'm skeptical of a decrease, but I can agree to 85% at the lowest.

@Xin Prussia: Because they can't choose one of their own because a tie can arise. That means there needs to be some way of acquiring candidates, which means at least a part of a whole new election, which would take a long time. Also, if the VP isn't the vote counter for the upper house, then the position is worthless; all he would do would be sitting and waiting for a random tie vote to arise to he can break it.
I'll agree to that.

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11 Re: Interregional Legislature on Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:36 pm

@Xin Prussia: Because they can't choose one of their own because a tie can arise. That means there needs to be some way of acquiring candidates, which means at least a part of a whole new election, which would take a long time. Also, if the VP isn't the vote counter for the upper house, then the position is worthless; all he would do would be sitting and waiting for a random tie vote to arise to he can break it.
Then make the VP an elected role. I won't compromise on this.

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12 Re: Interregional Legislature on Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:43 pm

I'm not particularly motivated to change my position either. What I WILL agree to is the possibility of using running mates; instead of having the president appoint a VP after election, have each presidential candidate run with a VP candidate. That will allow both to be at least moderately approved of throughout all the regions.

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13 Re: Interregional Legislature on Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:06 pm

Zwotstyg wrote:I'm not particularly motivated to change my position either. What I WILL agree to is the possibility of using running mates; instead of having the president appoint a VP after election, have each presidential candidate run with a VP candidate. That will allow both to be at least moderately approved of throughout all the regions.
This is what should happen. Running mates.

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14 Percentages and factions on Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:07 am

Zwotstyg wrote:

Second, I'm a little skeptical about lowering the rate for making new laws to just over 50%. We don't want the legislature spewing out laws left and right; I think a law should be a little more well-accepted before it's implemented. I prefer 60%, but I will wait to see what everyone else says.

On the issue of percentages, let's be careful about setting it too high. That essentially allows a well-organized or ideologically fervent minority to dominate the chamber. If several factions develop, it won't be hard to accomplish that, and on the flip side, it will be difficult to achieve even 50 percent if that requires corralling more than one faction into supporting a piece of legislation or a position on anything.

There is danger in setting the bar too high.

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15 Re: Interregional Legislature on Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:44 pm

@Ziptron: It wouldn't really be a minority group anymore if it gathered 40% support in the legislature. It would be hard to organize that many people under a rigid ideology, especially since, even in the same faction, different people have varying views on varying subjects. That said, and also adding on the fact that there are an initial four regions voted from, a truly dominant faction would be extremely difficult to form. If the majority is only a simple one (which means >50%), it would be even easier for a faction to form to make whatever laws they wanted to. With a 60% majority, it pushes the laws that are approved to be argued for and well-thought, at least better than those passed with only 50%. Also, keep in mind that 60% is only a 10% jump from a simple majority; that's not a stretch large enough to make laws hard to pass, and yet it's enough of a jump to weed out poorer laws.

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16 Re: Interregional Legislature on Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:50 pm

So did we decide on a name? If not, we could just call it the Assembly.

@Zwotstyg - I'm fine with what you suggested for percentages.

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17 Re: Interregional Legislature on Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:18 pm

Here are the percentages as of now, then; we'll continue taking opinions on them:
--Passing/repealing a law/treaty: 60%
-->50% to enforce or disband an order
--Recalling an official: 65%
--Amending the constitution: 75%
--Overriding a veto: 80%
--Accepting a request to join the interregional union: 85%

About the name, we should add Interregional to it. Combined with Othelos' idea, I suggest the Interregional Assembly. The lower house will be called the General Assembly, and the upper house, I suppose, we will keep as the Senate. I don't think we can come up with anything decent enough to match that.

We still need to establish a few other things, though. It seems we've agreed on the compromise of electing the VP as the running mate of the president, so the VP will remain the chairman of the Senate. We have not established, however, the whereabouts of the GA chairman. I retain my earlier opinion, that the VP should be given authority to appoint the GA chairman.



Last edited by Zwotstyg on Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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18 Re: Interregional Legislature on Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:47 pm

I think that the GA chaiman should be elected within the GA. The Senate is going to be more objective and only dealing with things the GA passes, so whoever heads it doesn't matter that much. Since the GA will start every bill, and is entirely political, whoever leads it should be in charge of what the majority wants.

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19 Re: Interregional Legislature on Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:41 pm

@Othelos: The GA chairman can't be elected from within the GA, because there will always be an even number of representatives. If the GA chairman is elected, there will have to be a whole new election, which means even more time tacked on to the 42-day election time we've already racked up. That's why I suggest an appointment, or another form of selection. Also, the Senate isn't only dealing with GA stuff. Remember, they assume all the things for dealing with orders and recalling officials.

Either way, I have a compromise on the GA chairman. In my opinion, we can't afford any more time tacked onto interregional elections. There should be some form of appointment, which the rest of you seem to disagree with. So I propose that the Constitutional Review Committee elect the GA chairman. We can do this in a similar way as selecting the CRC chairman: each region will have volunteers that submit personal statements to their region's WA delegate. Each delegate will select the best candidate and present their region's candidate to the CRC. The CRC will then vote on the GA chairman candidates; each region's committee members may not vote for the GA chairman candidate from their region. Whichever GA candidate receives the most votes wins. The GA chairman decision will take place after the CRC has selected its chairman.

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20 Re: Interregional Legislature on Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:52 am

Extra time doesn't need to be added. As soon as the legislature is elected, they could quickly elect someone.

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21 Re: Interregional Legislature on Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:07 am

@Othelos: Because it's a legislature with an even number of members, there must be a way to produce candidates from outside the GA, and then there must be enough time allotted for everyone in the GA to vote on the candidates. That's 4 days at the least. Do you not approve of my compromise?

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22 Re: Interregional Legislature on Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:46 am

Because it's a legislature with an even number of members, there must be a way to produce candidates from outside the GA
Hardly true. There's many ways to solve this:

We could use instant runoff voting, the best way.
Or if you insist, i suppose we could let the VP appoint the chairman IF there's a tie. (I.E make him a tiebreaker, which I've already suggested)

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23 Re: Interregional Legislature on Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:57 am

Instant runoff voting doesn't solve that. You still need candidates from outside the GA and you still need an election to choose one of them. Instant runoff is even slower than ordinary voting anyway, since you have to have several rounds of elimination unless you only have 2 candidates. That's why I suggested the Constitutional Review Committee vote on the person instead; it would be considerably faster than an election, more democratic than an appointment, and would give another job to the CRC, which, frankly, does very little at this point.

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24 Re: Interregional Legislature on Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:13 pm

*Also, if you two remain skeptical of the compromise I suggested, it may be wiser to do a regional vote so we don't have another ridiculous argument. That way we'll clear it up with a fair decision by the region. I can do the same for the current disagreement on using running mates for the VP.

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25 Re: Interregional Legislature on Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:34 pm

Zwotstyg wrote:*Also, if you two remain skeptical of the compromise I suggested, it may be wiser to do a regional vote so we don't have another ridiculous argument. That way we'll clear it up with a fair decision by the region. I can do the same for the current disagreement on using running mates for the VP.
If you're tired of bargaining, i suppose.
P.S: Like what you've done with the forum background.

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